Dear AP students:
What makes a great story? The main character has to want something very badly...and then someone or something has to stand in the way of that person getting it.
That is certainly the case in The Great Gatsby. Jay Gatsby yearns for Daisy and the American Dream. But certain things or people stand in his way.
Adding to Jay Gatsby's problem is "what" he wants. He seems to want too much. This is a case of someone's reach exceeeding his grasp. He starts from the bottom and strives to reach the very top, assuming an entirely different persona in the process. And he achieves success via bootlegging, no through normal. legal channels.
Those of you who have seen the move Scarface with Al Pacino have seen this story before. Tony Montana starts off as a Cuban refugee and becomes exceptionally wealthy via the drug trade. He too lives large. His is another version of the darker side of the American dream.
So let's relate and apply here. In what other ways are Jay Gatsby and Tony Montana the same? And how are they different? How do each view the power elite/high society that they intend to supplant? What kind of lifestyles do they pursue? What do they ultimately want more than anything else? What does them in?
And then let's relate and apply some more. Let's take another character we've studied this year...Mr. Kurtz from Heart of Darkness. How is Kurtz similar/different from Jay Gatsby? How does each become powerful? How do both deal with the issue of hypocrisy? What motivates each man? What does each man want? What influences each man/drives him to do illegal things? How does each man view the establishment/power elite?
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21 comments:
Gatsby sold bootleg liquor – which is illegal, and Kurtz was charged with the responsibility of collecting ivory – which he did so by killing the owners of the ivory – again strictly evil. In the beginning of both novels, the men were seen in great light: heroes and someone to be admired; but as the novel goes on the men lose their previously vindicated statures and fall beneath the eye of the reader. Gatsby – looked on by Carraway, and Kurtz – looked on by Marlow have their reputations restored by the end of the novel with on looker returning home, (to the Midwest/ to England) a wiser man. Through their roads of trials the heroic men are faced with adversity such as living in the past and forgetting the value of a man’s life, and the audience must learn to empathize with the flawed character.
Erika King
1) Tony Montana and Jay Gatsby are completely different in goals. Tony Montana wanted at first to make a living and wanted to do whatever he could to achieve it, one thing lead to another and he ended up in the drug industry.
Jay Gatsby, on the other hand, was no refugee and only wanted a life with Daisy, who he loved for so long, and made it his goal to have her in the end by whatever means; being over-the-top wealthy so he could provide food, shelter, clothes, and a wonderful home and life for her. He earned it through illegal activity but then sobered up his activity when he knew the time to be reunited with her was right; 5 years later.
But of anything, both Tony and do have one thing in common, they both accomplished illegal activity in order to get where they were in life. And in the end, Tony dies and Gatsby is lost in life.
2) Mr. Kurtz and Gatsby also have huge differences. Mr. Kurtz is a well known man to sailors and those who know something from them. They are both respected and hated by people who have heard of their "stories;" true or fake. How they deal with hypocrisy is by getting rid of the problem; Gatsby-not inviting people or being in the presence of people who talk about lies because they are willing to know the truth but don't make a move to, Mr. Kurtz- who seems to run away from the situation or just talks his way around it leading off to a different conversation that has nothing to do with the brought up topic. They both view their power different ways. Gatsby is trying to uphold an image of carelessness about his willings, and Mr. Kurtz uses his power in the rudest ways and makes it seem like a great accomplishment but does not wish to be praised for it.
If you haven't seen Scarface then you can't comment right???
Gatsby is a young man who seeks to be happy living the American Dream but seems to find living the American Dream and still not being happy because he doesnt have Daisy and is all alone. H ecompares to Al Pacino in Scarface because they both are living the rich dream and not the American Dream. What I mean to say is that they both have money one is inherited and wasted and then brought back and the other has money but both are being gained illegaly. The fact of the matter is that they seek happiness as do all the characters of every novel whrn they run in a time in their lives where they realize that money isint everything. kurts seems to have a good grasp of things inthe beginning of the novel but yet somethign about him seems to be very suspicious and as presumed he gains his wealthe also illegaly. All three have much wealth and one would ask what more could they want that thy dont already have. They all strive for happinees but through the wrong direction and end up losing. Gatsby isint living the American dream as a I mentioned earlier but the rich dream instead. I say this because The American dream is to come to America and live a happy life with a good family and money to live and a good car and a good job, yet Ameica has forgotten the one thing that completes the American Dream and really makes it, HAPPINESS.
Sunny Avila
Mr. Kurtz and Gatsby are two great characters to compare. They both obtained their power unethically, and they both can be argued mentally altered due to some of their actions. These men could not see the bigger picture, and were unable to look past their greed and inconsiderate nature to find the true key to self contentment. Although the men appear strong and confident, they are both easily influenced and emotionally pained, which is usually the case for such individuals.
Mr. Kurtz and Gatsby are two characters who share similar experiences. First, both were ideolized as great and the perfect example of what a man should look like and be like. Secondly, both lost their ways, Kurtz, for instance, began being evil and strict, his need of ivory brought out the worst in him and Gatsby lost his way by remembering his his sad past with Daisy, his need, bringing the uncertainty in him.
I agree with Erika, that Gatsby and Kurtz are similar in that they made their fortune through illegal means They were both regarded quite highly in the beginning, however, as the story progress we see them for what they really are.
-Alex Sonnenberg
First off, that formula for a great story seems awfully accurate to me. Haha, this goes to show the human intrigue and ultimate interest in the drama of personal struggles.
Anyways, yes, this would perfectly apply to Gatsby and Scarface. While others that came from their level of destitution would have been grateful and marveled at their new found success, Gatsby and Tony are never really satisfied and go to questionable lengths to achieve more. I believe their ultimate ends were brought about differently, however. From what I remember from Scarface, Tony was beset by his own drug. Isn't there a saying, "Don get high on your own supply"? Well, he was fully aware of the destructive nature of his cartel, and yet because it brought him everything he believed he ever wanted, he went on and let himself get carried away. Gatsby's case does not seem as extreme, but still damaging to reputation, in terms of both of their illegal activities being illegal in the first place and for them to be substances that alter mindset and can be abused.
In terms of Gatsby and Kurtz, the comparisons come rather readily. They both had an aura of austerity, and commanded a great deal of respect. Both men were whispered about in awe, both being honored with achievements they never earned, and bestowed with gratitude they did not deserve. Gatsby gains his power from his bootlegging operation, while Kurtz gains his from ivory, both activities looked down upon by civilized society. In their own haze of perceived success, they blow off the hypocrisy that surrounds them and continue with their activities because it brings them status and a following. While both were initially driven by honest intentions, their distorted views of living and the upper class drove them to shift perspective.
I feel that Mr. Kurtz and Jay Gatsby are similar in many ways. The most obvious of course is their jobs, they have both found ways to earn money through illegal and/or immoral means. I also feel that the two of them have some thing else very similar in common; unrealistic expectations. The two both believe that they are invincible, at least from consequences that emerge from the choices they make In their personal lives. Niether of them seem too guilty about their adultury or being the cause of someone else's. It is quite clear that the only way for these men to realize their outrageous expectations, is for their worlds to come crashing down around them, which in both stories requires their deaths.
TONY MONTANA! hahaha Scarface sounds like a great movie but unfortunately I haven't watched it. But... We all can agree that people want wealth to achieve higher status in society and they don't care how they GET IT! Whether it be achieving an education to drug dealing. We get what we want, and we don't care how we get it.
It is unfortunate, but thats just how the world is... cophyak
-BRANDON JOSE
Kurtz and Gatsby are very similar in the fact that they became successful but not for the right reasons. Also as the story progresses you can see that they are very unstable, happy and as dirty as the tactics they used to become successful.
btw, what does the movie Scarface have to do with anything? just wondering.
Myzel Esguerra
All three of these characters (Tony, Kurtz, and Gatsby) are obviously similar in their attempts to acheive but different in their own code of conduct. Tony growing up in Cuba wanted to achieve and to be something bigger by any means which is how he was caught up in the drug trade and much like Kurtz, as he went deeper and deeper into the business he became accustomed by the violence and while he didnt become entirely ruthless like kurtz (example: no innocents especially women or children killed), all the factors take a toll on him which leads to his demise.
Kurtz, simply put, goes ruthless from all the violence and evil he sees and goes hellbent with his objective to obtain more ivory killing anyone in his path.
Gatsby came across bootlegging as a means to acheive his sucess much like Tony. But the difference between him and the rest is that he tends to make himself appear as though he doesnt care. Tony and Kurtz lavished in their deeds in their own way while Gatsby tries to give himself the mysterious image.
Both Gatsby and Mr. Kurtz could not get past the greed of what they wanted. They both did illegal things in order to get where they were at, yet at the end they did not obtain what they wanted.
-Cobrin Humphery
These two men, Gatsby and Kurtz wanted a good life so much that they were willing to risk themselves by doing dangerous, illegal, and/or negative things in order to attain a good life with money and material pleasures.
Both men were so seduced that they eventually became sick in the head, one way or another.
The difference however is that Gatsby wants a good and happy life, he wants to achieve the American Dream. He simply sees an easy way and takes it. I believe Kurtz's reasons were darker; he seemed to be crazy and mentally il, accepting really negative things such as dehumanizing people as okay.
such as Scarface we as people may do things we may not be to proud of tho achieve the goal of power and fame it is a place of recognition that this book highly emphasize to do what ever it takes to be powerful
Imran S. Hoque
First off Tony Montana and Jay Gatsby are very similar characters. For example they both have a person who influences them to be rich and go into crime to achieve this. In Scarface Frank Lopez shows Tony what it means to be rich and how to achieve this through illegal means. In the Great Gatsby Dan Cody shows Jay Gatsby the benefits of being rich while Meyer Wolfsheim introduces Gatsby into the crime business. Then both Gatsby and Montana see the elite and wealthy as a necessary evil. The dislike them but they realize to get what they want in the world they must become rich and affluent. Once they become rich both of the characters live extravagant lives and use money in large amounts. Then both are infatuated and do everything possible to the women that they want. However Tony Montana marries the girl he desires while Jay Gatsby never did. A major difference between the two is that Tony became lost in his drugs and began to abuse them while Nick never speaks of Gatsby abusing power or using alcohol and drugs. Also Tony Montana uses a large amount of violence to get his way he simply kills any one in his path however there are no signs of Gatsby being a violent person. A final difference is that Gatsby was done in by an accident and his love for Daisy who he would do anything for while Tony Montana was done in by his arrogance and carelessness towards others. A final ironic similarity is that both Gatsby and Montana died in their mansions face down in the pool killed by a gunshot.
There are also many similarities between Mr. Kurtz of Heart of Darkness and Jay Gatsby. One major similarity is that they are both very rich and mysterious men. The way this can be concluded is that people do not know who they are. People spread rumors about both of them but never actually meet or get to know the person. Second both characters make their money threw unethical methods. Kurtz abuses and takes advantage of African workers and Gatsby s a bootlegger. However there are also some differences. For instance Mr. Kurtz was isolated and was lead to insanity while Gatsby does not become insane. Finally Kurtz does not like society and believes the rich are corrupt while Gatsby does not believe this.
Jay Gatsby and Tony Montana are both pursuers of the American Dream and have much in common with one another. Both work in a criminal syndicate, are wealthy, served in the military, etc, but what they truly have in common is that they had a taste of the Dream of money, power, and women, all of which had ultimately lead to their demise. The difference between the two is that Gatsby hides behind a mask, a name, a legacy he had made for himself and uses it as his offense and defense. Tony not only wields an M16 Carbine Assault Rifle with an M203 Grenade Launcher attactched, henchmen, and mountains of cocaine, but he has an in your face, don't mess with me attitude which would make Tom Buchanan look like a little girl. Both are truly unique individuals and are one of the select few that can acquire the Dream. This Dream is the ultimate dream for many, but for those who are not strong enough to possess its influence will slowly suffer and will eventually become another fallen victim.
I think that Mr Kurtz and Jay Gatsby had a similar problem in attaining what they wanted-power and wealth-but it came at different stages. I think that they got in their own way. But Jay Gatsby got in his way very early, just for being who he is, of the background he was from. Mr Kurtz got in his own way because of his greed and the great ambitions he had, and the lengths he would go to get it. The difference being that Mr Kurtz never thought he had enough, whereas Gatsby recognized that he had too much.
Josh Rodriguez
Jay Gatsby and Mr. Kurtz are alike in the way that they both participated in illegal and amoral things in order to get the thing they wanted most.
Jay Gatsby wanted too much. He strived to have the perfect life. You could say he achieved half of his perfect life when he became wealthy, but he had to push the limits and go after something he couldnt have: a married woman.
Mr. Kurtz wanted wealth and he was willing to go to the ends of the Earth to do it. He did absolutely everything in his power to make money off of ivory, that included obtaining and selling it illegaly.
Similarly, Gatsby sells alchohol during a time it was illegal to do so.
Kurtz's main goal is wealth, while Gatsby one-ups him and wants both wealth and a woman. In the end, this ambition leads to both of these characters' demise.
There is a big comparison between Gatsby and Kurtz, from Heart of Darkness. For example there ambition to achieve something. For Kurtz it was to become powerful therefore leading to imperialism in the heart of Africa then leading to his death. As well as Gatsby and his obsession with the American dream leading to becoming wealthy all in order to impress a woman. then leading to his death which no one really bothers to care with acceptation of Nick Carraway and his father. Both characters are extremely strong and independent, however head strong and obsessed with the idea of power.
- Ciara Santos
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